2 CITY COUNCIL

CITY OF NEW YORK

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THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE MINUTES

of the

COMMITTEE ON HOUSING And BUILDINGS

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10 January 26 2004

Start: 1:00 p.m.

11 Recess: 1:35 p.m.

12 City Hall

Committee Room

13 New York, New York

B E F O R E:

MADELINE PROVENZANO

16 Chairperson,

COUNCIL MEMBERS: Diana Reyna

18 Tony Avella

Gale Brewer

19 Lewis Fidler

Robert Jackson

20 Melinda Katz

Letitia James

21 James Oddo

24 LEGAL-EASE COURT REPORTING SERVICES, INC.

17 Battery Place - Suite 1308

25 New York, New York 10004

(800) 756-3410

1 COMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND BUILDINGS

2 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Good

3 afternoon. Today we are conducting the first meeting

4 of the Committee on Housing and Buildings for the

5 year 2004, and the first meeting of this Committee

6 during this new legislative session.

7 My name is Madeline Provenzano, and I

8 chair the Committee on Housing and Buildings.

9 First of all, I would like to

10 congratulate all of my colleagues on being

11 reappointed to the Committee, and I'd like to

12 congratulate the newest member of the Committee,

13 Council Member Letitia James, and I look forward to

14 working with each and every one of you over the next

15 two years.

16 For the record, I would like to list

17 the 11 members of the Committee. Now I have to find

18 you on my list. From my left, Council Member Lew

19 Fidler, representing the 46th District in Brooklyn.

20 Council Member Diana Reyna,

21 representing the 34th District in Brooklyn.

22 Our new Council Member Letitia James,

23 representing the 35th District. All in Brooklyn.

24 Council Member Robert Jackson,

25 representing the 7th District in Manhattan.

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2 They're not in order. They're not in

3 order of the way you're sitting.

4 Council Member Tony Avella,

5 representing the 19th District in Queens.

6 Council Member Gale Brewer, who

7 represents the 6th District in Manhattan.

8 Minority Leader, Council Member James

9 Oddo, representing the 50th District in Staten

10 Island, and in Brooklyn.

11 Now, those that are not here but are

12 members of the Committee, are Majority Leader

13 Council Member Joel Rivera, representing the 15th

14 District in the Bronx; Majority Whip Council Member

15 Leroy Comrie, representing the 25th District in

16 Queens; and as we speak, arriving Council Member

17 Melinda Katz, who represents the 29th District in

18 Queens; and myself, Council Member Madeline

19 Provenzano, representing the 13th District in the

20 Bronx. And that is the Committee.

21 The Committee on Housing and

22 Buildings has jurisdiction over the Department of

23 Housing, Preservation and Development, the

24 Department of Buildings, and the New York City

25 Housing Authority, as well as rent regulation,

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2 including rent control and rent stabilization.

3 This is I guess, aside from the vote

4 we're taking today, could be considered an

5 organizational meeting, and although we haven't

6 officially planned an agenda, I think some of the

7 matters that we will be addressing this session are:

8 the Mayor's highrise building safety legislation,

9 which is legislation that we'll be working on, as a

10 result of the World Trade Center Task Force.

11 Also, scaffolding safety, carbon

12 monoxide concerns, several demolition bills that

13 we'll hold hearings on and self certification, which

14 is a concern of many members of the Council.

15 And I encourage my Committee members

16 to suggest issues that they may want to place on the

17 agenda of this Committee during this session.

18 Anything that would concern new

19 construction, existing buildings or housing in New

20 York.

21 At this point in time, I would also

22 like to acknowledge the newly created Subcommittee

23 on Public Housing, which is chaired by Council

24 Member Diana Reyna. Congratulations.

25 And I urge those of you that have

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2 issues relating to public housing to speak to

3 Council Member Reyna, and I'm sure she will be most

4 cooperative.

5 Today the Committee will be

6 revisiting the lead poison prevention bill that was

7 passed by the Council at the end of the last

8 session.

9 As you all know, Intro. No. 101-A of

10 the 2002/2003 session was vetoed by the Mayor.

11 M 6, Communication from the Mayor,

12 contained the Mayor's veto and disapproval message

13 of Intro. No. 101-A, a local law to amend the

14 Administrative Code of the City of New York in

15 relation to childhood lead poisoning prevention.

16 Including the avoidance and remediation of

17 lead-based paint hazards in housing and day care

18 facilities, the repeal of Local Law No. 38 for the

19 year of 1999, and the repeal of subdivision H of

20 Section 27-2013, and Section 27-2126 of such code.

21 M 6 was received by the Council on

22 January 7th, 2004.

23 For procedural clarity, the Committee

24 will be conducting two votes.

25 The first vote is upon a motion to

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2 receive and file the Mayor's Message M6, vetoing

3 Intro. No. 101-A of 2002, 2003 session concerning

4 lead poisoning prevention.

5 A yes vote will only mean that the

6 message is accepted into the record, and does not

7 mean that any Committee member is in agreement with

8 its contents.

9 So, we're going to vote the two

10 separately.

11 First we're voting, do you need me or

12 you've got it? You've got it. We'll vote separately.

13 The first one you're voting just to

14 receive and file the Mayor's Message.

15 And the second one is on Intro. No.

16 101-A of the 2002/2003 session, and is a vote on

17 whether Intro. No. 101-A of the 2002/2003 session

18 should be repassed, notwithstanding the objections

19 of the Mayor.

20 Shall Intro. No. 101-A of 2002/2003

21 session be repassed, notwithstanding the objections

22 of the Mayor. What would we do without all these

23 smart people that tell us what to say? Thank you,

24 Jeff.

25 MS. NASSER: All right. Terzah Nasser,

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2 Counsel to the Committee. I'm going to call the roll

3 on the first item. The first vote, again, is upon

4 the motion to receive and file the Mayor's Message M

5 6, vetoing Intro. No. 101-A of the 2002/2003

6 session.

7 Council Member Provenzano, how do you

8 vote?

9 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Yes.

10 MS. NASSER: Council Member Reyna.

11 COUNCIL MEMBER REYNA: Yes.

12 MS. NASSER: Council Member Avella.

13 COUNCIL MEMBER AVELLA: Yes.

14 MS. NASSER: Council Member Brewer.

15 COUNCIL MEMBER BREWER: Yes.

16 MS. NASSER: Council Member Fidler.

17 COUNCIL MEMBER FIDLER: Yes.

18 MS. NASSER: Council Member Jackson.

19 COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Yes.

20 MS. NASSER: Council Member Katz.

21 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: Yes.

22 MS. NASSER: Council Member James.

23 COUNCIL MEMBER JAMES: Yes.

24 MS. NASSER: Council Member Oddo.

25 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Yes.

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2 MS. NASSER: By a vote of nine in the

3 affirmative, none in the negative, and no

4 abstentions, the message from the Mayor, M 6, is

5 filed. Accepted and filed.

6 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Okay, now

7 this vote shall be, Melinda, so that you know.

8 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: Yes, Ma'am.

9 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Intro. No.

10 101-A of the 2002/2003 session be repassed,

11 notwithstanding the objections of the Mayor. That's

12 what we're voting on right now.

13 COUNCIL CLERK: Provenzano.

14 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: No.

15 COUNCIL CLERK: Reyna.

16 COUNCIL MEMBER REYNA: Yes.

17 COUNCIL CLERK: Avella.

18 COUNCIL MEMBER AVELLA: Yes.

19 COUNCIL CLERK: Brewer.

20 COUNCIL MEMBER BREWER: Yes. I want to

21 reiterate that I feel not despite the Mayor we

22 should override, but I want to say that I have met

23 in the interim with very legitimate groups who

24 provide affordable housing and who do not think that

25 insurance is a problem but there are other

1 COMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND BUILDINGS

2 technicalities that need to be worked out, maybe

3 they can be worked out in the regs.

4 I definitely vote yes, but I want to

5 just say that I'm very cognizant of these issues,

6 and I look forward to working with the advocates who

7 care about children and advocates who care about

8 housing.

9 Thank you.

10 COUNCIL CLERK: Fidler.

11 COUNCIL MEMBER FIDLER: Madam

12 Chairwoman, may I be excused to explain my vote?

13 I still feel that there are some

14 problems with this bill, but I have not seen any

15 effort made by the Administration to come in and try

16 and fix them. And just as I said, when we passed

17 this bill last time, once the Court of Appeals

18 struck down the law protecting children in this

19 City, we were left with absolutely no alternative

20 but to pass one.

21 I'd rather have a bill that has

22 defects that may need to be fixed than have no bill

23 whatsoever protect children from lead paint in this

24 City. I think that's unconscionable, and, so, I vote

25 aye.

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2 COUNCIL CLERK: Jackson.

3 COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Pass.

4 COUNCIL CLERK: Katz.

5 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: Madam Chair, to

6 explain my vote?

7 I'm going to vote aye today on the

8 override.

9 I do want to just mimic what Council

10 Member Brewer said and also what Council Member

11 Fidler said. This is not a perfect piece of

12 legislation, but then again, often compromises

13 aren't.

14 What does concern me is that there

15 doesn't seem to have been a huge compromise with the

16 administration, and I would have hoped that we would

17 have been able to work something out with them.

18 I agree that we do need a law. We do

19 need to protect the children of the City.

20 I do implore this Committee and the

21 New York City Council to use their oversight

22 responsibilities and their oversight abilities to be

23 able to follow this closely as the law is

24 implemented throughout the City.

25 I do have a great concern about

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2 affordable housing and the insurance issues of the

3 real estate community. I think it's important that

4 we build the affordable housing and also give the

5 opportunity for buildings to go up so that we can

6 make sure that the vacancy issues that we do have in

7 this City are addressed.

8 It is the number one issue that comes

9 before the Land Use Committee on a daily basis, how

10 are we going to build more housing?

11 So, I know this Committee and the

12 Council will watch closely as we go forward with

13 this piece of legislation. And perhaps as Council

14 Member Brewer said might be one of the answers is to

15 look at the regulations, and I'm hoping that the

16 Administration does deal with us and work with us as

17 they go forward to implement the regulations for

18 this piece of legislation. I vote aye.

19 COUNCIL CLERK: James.

20 COUNCIL MEMBER JAMES: Madam Chair,

21 may I be excused to explain my vote?

22 I would like to share similar

23 comments that have been expressed by Councilwoman

24 Brewer.

25 I have spoken to the Executive

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2 Director of the Pratt Area Community Council and he

3 indicates that this is a fair comprise piece of

4 legislation, and I believe this is a common sense

5 approach to a public health issue, and I proudly

6 vote in the affirmative.

7 Thank you.

8 COUNCIL CLERK: Oddo.

9 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: May I be

10 temporarily excused to explain my vote?

11 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Yes.

12 COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Thank you, Madam

13 Chair.

14 Subsequent to the Council's vote on

15 Intro. 101-A, a vote in which the Chairwoman and I

16 voted no in the Subcommittee and before the full

17 Council, on Sunday, December 21st, in the Metro

18 Section of the New York Times there was a story

19 about David Chen entitled "One Housing Woe Gives Way

20 To Another," and in the story there was a paragraph

21 that referred to this study that eventually came

22 out, the State of New York's Housing and

23 Neighborhoods 2003 Study by the Ferman Center for

24 Real Estate and Urban Policy (phonetic) and it

25 talked about how there was the long-term delinquency

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2 on property taxes jumped roughly one-third during

3 2002 after years of steady decline. And they talked

4 about how they don't know if this was just a blip or

5 an early warning sign that we have a weakness in the

6 housing stock, and they attributed that weakness to

7 the City's recent property tax increase, rising

8 insurance costs and other factors.

9 After that, I read a comment by the

10 lead sponsor of this bill that appeared in the

11 Amsterdam News when he talked yet again about how

12 only one insurance company industry representative

13 testified and how that was evidence that there

14 really wasn't an issue in terms of insurance.

15 I want the record to reflect that

16 I've had some conversations subsequent to the vote

17 with some of the insurance industry, and I asked

18 them why no one came forth, and basically what I was

19 told is they said it would be a very bad PR move for

20 them and it essentially was building, was drawing a

21 bulls-eye on their back. The fact of the matter is

22 large insurance companies already do not provide

23 lead paint coverage, it's not worth the cost for

24 them, and that only a few small companies provide

25 lead paint coverage.

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2 And I want the record to reflect that

3 subsequent to the vote, a number of these small

4 companies have already applied to the State

5 Department Insurance for an exclusion to stop

6 providing lead paint.

7 So, I think that the points made by

8 the Chairwoman and I and others, the insurance issue

9 is a genuine issue.

10 And I'll close by saying this: I have

11 not always agreed with this Mayor, in fact I have

12 disagreed vehemently with him at times, but I have

13 to commend him for having the courage of his

14 convictions. He knew the proponents of this bill and

15 his opponents political and otherwise couched this

16 issue in terms of Mike Bloomberg being a Grinch and

17 voting against kids, but he voted against it anyway

18 because he voted on principal. And I'll close with

19 the Mayor's words, because I think they capture this

20 issue perfectly, this bill in many respects is

21 unreasonable, perhaps unachievable and perhaps in

22 some instances counterproductive. I vote no.

23 COUNCIL CLERK: Jackson.

24 COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Madam Chair,

25 may I be excused to explain my vote?

1 COMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND BUILDINGS

2 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Yes.

3 COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Thank you.

4 As I expressed earlier in voting on

5 this particular matter, I'm very concerned about

6 affordable housing and I've been approached directly

7 by developers in my community and expressing

8 concerns about it, and I am concerned, because if in

9 fact affordable housing is not built, then the

10 people that I represent will be negatively impacted.

11 While I'm fully aware of that, I do

12 know that thousands of children are being negatively

13 impacted as far as damage to their brain as a result

14 of lead paint and lead dust that all agree many, if

15 not all of it, comes from the housing situation.

16 So, in considering these factors,

17 then I have no choice but to vote with the children

18 that are being damaged for life, and I do hope that

19 whatever the issues and concerns are on this

20 particular matter will be worked out by all those

21 that are looking to do what is best for our great

22 City and for the children of our great City, and

23 with that, I vote yes.

24 COUNCIL CLERK: By a vote of seven in

25 the affirmative, two in the negative and no

1 COMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND BUILDINGS

2 abstentions, Intro. 101-A is readopted. Council

3 Members, please sign the Committee reports. Thank

4 you.

5 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: Madam Chair,

6 when will this come to the floor?

7 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Excuse me?

8 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: When will this

9 come to the floor?

10 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: February 4th.

11 COUNCIL MEMBER KATZ: February 4th.

12 Thank you.

13 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: The next

14 Council meeting is February 4th, that's when it will

15 be voted on.

16 I thank everybody. Meeting is

17 adjourned.

18 (Hearing concluded at 1:35 p.m.)

2 CERTIFICATION

5 STATE OF NEW YORK )

6 COUNTY OF NEW YORK )

9 I, CINDY MILLELOT, a Certified

10 Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public in and for the

11 State of New York, do hereby certify that the

12 foregoing is a true and accurate transcript of the

13 within proceeding.

14 I further certify that I am not

15 related to any of the parties to this action by

16 blood or marriage, and that I am in no way

17 interested in the outcome of this matter.

18 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto

19 set my hand this 26th day of January, 2004

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25 CINDY MILLELOT, CSR.

2 C E R T I F I C A T I O N

9 I, CINDY MILLELOT, a Certified Shorthand

10 Reporter and a Notary Public in and for the State of

11 New York, do hereby certify the aforesaid to be a

12 true and accurate copy of the transcription of the

13 audio tapes of this hearing.

24 -----------------------

CINDY MILLELOT, CSR.