1

 

          2  CITY COUNCIL

 

          3

             CITY OF NEW YORK

          4

             -------------------------------x

          5

             THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE MINUTES

          6

                       of the

          7

             COMMITTEE ON HOUSING And BUILDINGS

          8

             -------------------------------x

          9

 

         10                 November 17, 2003

                            Start:  12:10 p.m.

         11                 Recess: 3:55 p.m.

 

         12                 City Hall

                            Council Chambers

         13                 New York, New York

 

         14

                  B E F O R E:

         15

                         MADELINE PROVENZANO

         16                                Chairperson,

 

         17

                         COUNCIL MEMBERS:   Tony Avella

         18                                 Gale Brewer

                                            Lewis Fidler

         19                                 Melinda Katz

                                            Kendall Stewart

         20                                 James Oddo

                                            Christine Quinn

         21                                 Bill Perkins

                                            Domenic Recchia

         22                                 Speaker Miller

 

         23

 

         24       LEGAL-EASE COURT REPORTING SERVICES, INC.

                         17 Battery Place -  Suite 1308

         25              New York, New York 10004

                              (800) 756-3410

 

 

 

 

 

                                                            2

 

 

          1

 

          2  A P P E A R A N C E S

 

          3

             Jerilyn Perine

          4  Commissioner

             NYC Department of Housing Preservation

          5  And Development

 

          6  Harold Schultz

             Special Counsel

          7  NYC Department of Housing Preservation

             And Development

          8

             Thomas R. Frieden, M.D., M.P.H.

          9  Commissioner

             Health and Mental Hygiene

         10

             Stan Michels

         11

             Preston Niblack

         12  Deputy Director

             Independent Budget Office

         13

             Molly Wasso Parker

         14  Senior Director,

             Analyst for Housing and Buildings

         15  Independent Budget Office

 

         16  Rachael Salibreze

             Health Analyst

         17  Independent Budget Office

 

         18  Maya Bachinsky

 

         19  Innocensia Alvarez

 

         20  Edward Korman

             Executive Vice President

         21  The Small Property Owners of New York, Inc.

 

         22  Michael D. Lappin

             President

         23  The Community Preservation Corporation

 

         24  Matthew Dean

             Executive Director

         25  Physicians for Social Responsibility/NYC

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                                            3

 

 

          1

 

          2  A P P E A R A N C E S (CONTINUED)

 

          3

             Elaine Toribio

          4  Policy Analyst

             Citizens Housing and Planning Council of New York

          5

             Frank Ricci

          6  Director of Government Affairs

             Rent Stabilization Association

          7

             Jordi Reyes-Montblanc

          8  President and Chairman

             Board of Directors of The HDFC Council

          9

             Evangelista Romon

         10  Washington Heights

             Grandmother of poisoned child

         11

             Juan Idaquez

         12  President

             Asbestos Lead and Waste Laborers, Local 78

         13

             Michael McGuire

         14  Director of Governmental and Legislative Affairs

             Mason Tenders' District Council of

         15  Greater New York and Long Island

 

         16  David Lee McAllister, M.A.

             Principal Lead- based Paint Instructor

         17  Active Training Associates

 

         18  Stephanie Nolasco

             Twelve year old

         19  diagnosed with Lead Poisoning

 

         20  TESTIMONY REQUESTED READ INTO RECORD

 

         21  Michelle Alvarez

             Attorney

         22  Natural Resources Defense Council

 

         23

 

         24

 

         25

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                                            4

 

 

          1  COMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND BUILDINGS

 

          2                 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Good morning.

 

          3  Good afternoon, whatever it is. It's only ten

 

          4  minutes, good afternoon.

 

          5                 My name is Madeline Provenzano and I

 

          6  chair the Committee on Housing and Buildings.

 

          7                 Today we are conducting a hearing on

 

          8  a revised version of proposed Intro. No. 101-A, in

 

          9  relation to childhood lead poisoning prevention. I'd

 

         10  like to thank those of you who are here for this

 

         11  hearing, and for your continued interest in this

 

         12  matter.

 

         13                 The Committee has conducted a

 

         14  previous hearing on an earlier version of this bill.

 

         15  That hearing was begun on June 23rd, recessed and

 

         16  then continued on September 12th. It is important to

 

         17  state that during the month of July the Court of

 

         18  Appeals struck down Local Law 38 for the Year 1999,

 

         19  thereby making it more urgent that this Council

 

         20  craft appropriate legislation to address the issue

 

         21  of lead-based paint and to prevent childhood lead

 

         22  poisoning.

 

         23                 We are once again expecting a goodly

 

         24  amount of potential witnesses and observers. So, I

 

         25  would just like you to be mindful of any time

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                                            5

 

 

          1  COMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND BUILDINGS

 

          2  constraints that I impose, and please be considerate

 

          3  of your fellow colleagues and of one another.

 

          4                 In order to move things along

 

          5  smoothly, I'm requesting that all witnesses be

 

          6  concise and that your testimony focus on the bill or

 

          7  any amendments to the bill only.

 

          8                 I also wish to reiterate that only

 

          9  one spokesperson may testify from each group or

 

         10  organization.

 

         11                 Again, I repeat that this could be a

 

         12  very emotional hearing, but it will be conducted in

 

         13  a dignified manner.

 

         14                 You may not agree with all of the

 

         15  comments made, but please allow everyone to testify

 

         16  without boos, heckling, cheers or applause. That

 

         17  will help move the hearing along for all of us, and

 

         18  if you wish to testify, remember you must sign in

 

         19  with the Sergeant-At-Arms.

 

         20                 I'd like to introduce my colleagues

 

         21  that are here. To my right we have Council Member

 

         22  James Oddo, Council Member Recchia, Council Member

 

         23  Bill Perkins.

 

         24                 To my left Council Member Tony

 

         25  Avella, Councilwoman Christine Quinn, Councilwoman

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                                            6

 

 

          1  COMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND BUILDINGS

 

          2  Melinda Katz, and our Speaker, Council Member

 

          3  Gifford Miller. And I think the Speaker would like

 

          4  to say a few words.

 

          5                 SPEAKER MILLER: Well, thank you,

 

          6  Madam Chair. Thank you for chairing these hearings

 

          7  and for your leadership in making sure that we

 

          8  address this issue.

 

          9                 Secondly, I thank all of my

 

         10  colleagues that are here, particularly the prime

 

         11  sponsor of this legislation, Council Member Perkins

 

         12  and the other sponsors of this legislation. I'm just

 

         13  pleased to be here to say that this version of

 

         14  101-A, which has been poured over exhaustively for

 

         15  quite some time, is a version that I think is the

 

         16  most -- has the potential to be, once it is enacted,

 

         17  the most powerful legislation in the country to

 

         18  protect children from lead poisoning. And that its

 

         19  primary focus is appropriately on protecting

 

         20  children, preventing lead poisoning in the first

 

         21  place, and making sure that the incentives are such

 

         22  that it never occurs, that we focus on the terrible

 

         23  problem, which continues to affect thousands of

 

         24  children in our City every year, and we believe that

 

         25  this approach, and I believe, and the other sponsors

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                                            7

 

 

          1  COMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND BUILDINGS

 

          2  of this legislation I think believe that this

 

          3  approach is the right approach.

 

          4                 It is also a reasonable approach,

 

          5  which sets compliance in reasonable terms, and

 

          6  reduces cost where appropriate in order to make sure

 

          7  we're focusing the expenses and the resources of

 

          8  this City on preventing lead poisoning in the first

 

          9  place, and acting swiftly when it has occurred to

 

         10  protect children. And we will, of course, welcome

 

         11  the support of the Administration for this

 

         12  legislation, so that we can make sure that it is not

 

         13  only enacted, that it is implemented, and

 

         14  implemented in a way that will reduce childhood lead

 

         15  poisoning to a point at which no child ever has to

 

         16  get poisoned again.

 

         17                 So, I am very pleased that this

 

         18  legislation is getting this hearing today and I look

 

         19  forward to working with all the other members of the

 

         20  Council, with the members of the public, and with

 

         21  the administration to enacting legislation that will

 

         22  in the end be the most effective piece of

 

         23  legislation in the country to protect children from

 

         24  the scourge of lead poisoning. And I thank everyone

 

         25  for their leadership and bringing it to this point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                                            8

 

 

          1  COMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND BUILDINGS

 

          2                 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Thank you,

 

          3  Mr. Speaker.

 

          4                 We'll now have a few comments from

 

          5  the sponsor of the bill, Council Member Perkins.

 

          6                 COUNCIL MEMBER PERKINS: Thank you,

 

          7  Councilwoman, and Chair of this Committee, for

 

          8  allowing me a moment to say a few words and for

 

          9  presiding over this very significant legislation,

 

         10  which as you point out is very emotional and of

 

         11  great concern to all New Yorkers.

 

         12                 Let me first start by thanking

 

         13  sincerely the Speaker and the other 36 Council

 

         14  members who support Intro. 101-A, the Childhood Lead

 

         15  Paint Poisoning Prevention Act.

 

         16                 This bill is a state-of-the-art

 

         17  measure that will put New York City at the head of

 

         18  the nation for protecting children from lead paint

 

         19  poisoning. It is comprehensive, cost effective, and

 

         20  if enacted, will provide for the control of lead

 

         21  dust. The primary pathway to lead poisoning, as well

 

         22  as lead paint.

 

         23                 It requires landlords to eliminate

 

         24  leadpaint hazards, and the underlying conditions

 

         25  that cause them. It defines leadpaint hazards as

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                                            9

 

 

          1  COMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND BUILDINGS

 

          2  peeling lead paint, lead dust and certain surfaces

 

          3  with lead paint, such as friction, impact and

 

          4  chewable surfaces.

 

          5                 In addition, Intro. 101-A requires

 

          6  landlords to affirmatively ascertain the presence of

 

          7  children under age seven as in the current window

 

          8  guard law. It mandates that HPD inspectors, when

 

          9  making routine inspections, always inquire for the

 

         10  presence of children and conduct line of sight

 

         11  inspections for peeling lead paint. Intro. 101-A

 

         12  also requires HPD operators when taking a phone

 

         13  complaint to ask about children and peeling paint.

 

         14                 It adds protection from lead dust

 

         15  hazards during repairs and renovations. It lowers

 

         16  Health Department action levels to 15 ug/dl from the

 

         17  current two tests within three months at 15 ug/dl or

 

         18  one test at or above 20 ug/dl.

 

         19                 As we all know, Intro 101-A is

 

         20  supported by countless medical, environmental,

 

         21  housing, labor and good government groups, as well

 

         22  as religious leaders, the public advocate and the

 

         23  City and State Comptrollers, as well as other City

 

         24  and State elected officials. At today's hearing I

 

         25  hope we'll be able to add the Mayor to that list as

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                                            10

 

 

          1  COMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND BUILDINGS

 

          2  well.

 

          3                 Thank you.

 

          4                 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Thank you.

 

          5  We'll start with our Commissioners. We have Jerilyn

 

          6  Perine, Commissioner of HPD, and we have Tom

 

          7  Frieden, Commissioner of Department of Health and

 

          8  Mental Health, whichever one of you wants to start

 

          9  first.

 

         10                 COMMISSIONER PERINE: I'll go first.

 

         11                 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Okay.

 

         12                 COMMISSIONER PERINE: Good morning,

 

         13  Chairperson Provenzano  and Speaker Miller, and

 

         14  members of the Housing and Buildings Committee. I'm

 

         15  Jerilyn Perine --

 

         16                 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Commissioner,

 

         17  can I interrupt a minute? Do you have written

 

         18  testimony?

 

         19                 COMMISSIONER PERINE: I do.

 

         20                 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Okay, thank

 

         21  you.

 

         22                 COMMISSIONER PERINE: Hot off the

 

         23  presses, sorry.

 

         24                 I'm the Commissioner of the

 

         25  Department of Housing Preservation and Development.

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                                            11

 

 

          1  COMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND BUILDINGS

 

          2                 We appreciate the opportunity to

 

          3  testify today regarding the issue of lead poison

 

          4  prevention and the revised version of 101-A. As you

 

          5  are aware, we testified on this issue on June 23rd,

 

          6  2003. As we all know, since that time the Court of

 

          7  Appeals has invalidated Local Law 38 on the basis

 

          8  that the conditions of the State Environmental

 

          9  Quality Review Act were not fully satisfied. Now

 

         10  legislation is needed to replace Local Law 38.

 

         11                 The proposed bill is a big step

 

         12  forward in the direction of improving the lives of

 

         13  children, and we believe with some technical and

 

         14  procedural changes we have the opportunity to have a

 

         15  better primary prevention program than we have had

 

         16  to date. The proposed bill makes a firm commitment

 

         17  to the use of trained workers to deal with lead

 

         18  paint and lead hazards in New York City.

 

         19                 The use of qualified workers helps

 

         20  ensure that work is done properly and safely. All of

 

         21  the work that HPD currently does in regard to lead

 

         22  paint violation removal is done with EPA-trained

 

         23  workers, so we have significant experience regarding

 

         24  how to accomplish this type of work, and what

 

         25  resources of time and staff are required to do it

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                                            12

 

 

          1  COMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND BUILDINGS

 

          2  safely and properly.

 

          3                 The proposed bill requires that lead

 

          4  dust clean-up and dust clearance tests are done

 

          5  after any lead hazard remediation work.

 

          6                 Again, HPD's work meets this standard

 

          7  now, and extending it to all work undertaken is

 

          8  helpful to ensure that there is an independent check

 

          9  on all lead hazard remediation work and that

 

         10  clean-ups are done properly.

 

         11                 In addition, the proposed bill

 

         12  provides that friction surfaces could now be a

 

         13  stand-alone violation which will help to target

 

         14  repairs where lead dust is most likely to be

 

         15  generated. We also note that the definition of lead

 

         16  paint has been changed to the nationally recognized

 

         17  standard of one milligram per square centimeter.

 

         18                 This helps to ensure that the