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2 CITY COUNCIL

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CITY OF NEW YORK

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THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE MINUTES

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of the

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COMMITTEE ON HOUSING And BUILDINGS

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10 November 17, 2003

Start: 12:10 p.m.

11 Recess: 3:55 p.m.

12 City Hall

Council Chambers

13 New York, New York

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B E F O R E:

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MADELINE PROVENZANO

16 Chairperson,

17

COUNCIL MEMBERS: Tony Avella

18 Gale Brewer

Lewis Fidler

19 Melinda Katz

Kendall Stewart

20 James Oddo

Christine Quinn

21 Bill Perkins

Domenic Recchia

22 Speaker Miller

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24 LEGAL-EASE COURT REPORTING SERVICES, INC.

17 Battery Place - Suite 1308

25 New York, New York 10004

(800) 756-3410

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1

2 A P P E A R A N C E S

3

Jerilyn Perine

4 Commissioner

NYC Department of Housing Preservation

5 And Development

6 Harold Schultz

Special Counsel

7 NYC Department of Housing Preservation

And Development

8

Thomas R. Frieden, M.D., M.P.H.

9 Commissioner

Health and Mental Hygiene

10

Stan Michels

11

Preston Niblack

12 Deputy Director

Independent Budget Office

13

Molly Wasso Parker

14 Senior Director,

Analyst for Housing and Buildings

15 Independent Budget Office

16 Rachael Salibreze

Health Analyst

17 Independent Budget Office

18 Maya Bachinsky

19 Innocensia Alvarez

20 Edward Korman

Executive Vice President

21 The Small Property Owners of New York, Inc.

22 Michael D. Lappin

President

23 The Community Preservation Corporation

24 Matthew Dean

Executive Director

25 Physicians for Social Responsibility/NYC

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2 A P P E A R A N C E S (CONTINUED)

3

Elaine Toribio

4 Policy Analyst

Citizens Housing and Planning Council of New York

5

Frank Ricci

6 Director of Government Affairs

Rent Stabilization Association

7

Jordi Reyes-Montblanc

8 President and Chairman

Board of Directors of The HDFC Council

9

Evangelista Romon

10 Washington Heights

Grandmother of poisoned child

11

Juan Idaquez

12 President

Asbestos Lead and Waste Laborers, Local 78

13

Michael McGuire

14 Director of Governmental and Legislative Affairs

Mason Tenders' District Council of

15 Greater New York and Long Island

16 David Lee McAllister, M.A.

Principal Lead- based Paint Instructor

17 Active Training Associates

18 Stephanie Nolasco

Twelve year old

19 diagnosed with Lead Poisoning

20 TESTIMONY REQUESTED READ INTO RECORD

21 Michelle Alvarez

Attorney

22 Natural Resources Defense Council

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2 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Good morning.

3 Good afternoon, whatever it is. It's only ten

4 minutes, good afternoon.

5 My name is Madeline Provenzano and I

6 chair the Committee on Housing and Buildings.

7 Today we are conducting a hearing on

8 a revised version of proposed Intro. No. 101-A, in

9 relation to childhood lead poisoning prevention. I'd

10 like to thank those of you who are here for this

11 hearing, and for your continued interest in this

12 matter.

13 The Committee has conducted a

14 previous hearing on an earlier version of this bill.

15 That hearing was begun on June 23rd, recessed and

16 then continued on September 12th. It is important to

17 state that during the month of July the Court of

18 Appeals struck down Local Law 38 for the Year 1999,

19 thereby making it more urgent that this Council

20 craft appropriate legislation to address the issue

21 of lead-based paint and to prevent childhood lead

22 poisoning.

23 We are once again expecting a goodly

24 amount of potential witnesses and observers. So, I

25 would just like you to be mindful of any time

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2 constraints that I impose, and please be considerate

3 of your fellow colleagues and of one another.

4 In order to move things along

5 smoothly, I'm requesting that all witnesses be

6 concise and that your testimony focus on the bill or

7 any amendments to the bill only.

8 I also wish to reiterate that only

9 one spokesperson may testify from each group or

10 organization.

11 Again, I repeat that this could be a

12 very emotional hearing, but it will be conducted in

13 a dignified manner.

14 You may not agree with all of the

15 comments made, but please allow everyone to testify

16 without boos, heckling, cheers or applause. That

17 will help move the hearing along for all of us, and

18 if you wish to testify, remember you must sign in

19 with the Sergeant-At-Arms.

20 I'd like to introduce my colleagues

21 that are here. To my right we have Council Member

22 James Oddo, Council Member Recchia, Council Member

23 Bill Perkins.

24 To my left Council Member Tony

25 Avella, Councilwoman Christine Quinn, Councilwoman

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2 Melinda Katz, and our Speaker, Council Member

3 Gifford Miller. And I think the Speaker would like

4 to say a few words.

5 SPEAKER MILLER: Well, thank you,

6 Madam Chair. Thank you for chairing these hearings

7 and for your leadership in making sure that we

8 address this issue.

9 Secondly, I thank all of my

10 colleagues that are here, particularly the prime

11 sponsor of this legislation, Council Member Perkins

12 and the other sponsors of this legislation. I'm just

13 pleased to be here to say that this version of

14 101-A, which has been poured over exhaustively for

15 quite some time, is a version that I think is the

16 most -- has the potential to be, once it is enacted,

17 the most powerful legislation in the country to

18 protect children from lead poisoning. And that its

19 primary focus is appropriately on protecting

20 children, preventing lead poisoning in the first

21 place, and making sure that the incentives are such

22 that it never occurs, that we focus on the terrible

23 problem, which continues to affect thousands of

24 children in our City every year, and we believe that

25 this approach, and I believe, and the other sponsors

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2 of this legislation I think believe that this

3 approach is the right approach.

4 It is also a reasonable approach,

5 which sets compliance in reasonable terms, and

6 reduces cost where appropriate in order to make sure

7 we're focusing the expenses and the resources of

8 this City on preventing lead poisoning in the first

9 place, and acting swiftly when it has occurred to

10 protect children. And we will, of course, welcome

11 the support of the Administration for this

12 legislation, so that we can make sure that it is not

13 only enacted, that it is implemented, and

14 implemented in a way that will reduce childhood lead

15 poisoning to a point at which no child ever has to

16 get poisoned again.

17 So, I am very pleased that this

18 legislation is getting this hearing today and I look

19 forward to working with all the other members of the

20 Council, with the members of the public, and with

21 the administration to enacting legislation that will

22 in the end be the most effective piece of

23 legislation in the country to protect children from

24 the scourge of lead poisoning. And I thank everyone

25 for their leadership and bringing it to this point.

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2 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Thank you,

3 Mr. Speaker.

4 We'll now have a few comments from

5 the sponsor of the bill, Council Member Perkins.

6 COUNCIL MEMBER PERKINS: Thank you,

7 Councilwoman, and Chair of this Committee, for

8 allowing me a moment to say a few words and for

9 presiding over this very significant legislation,

10 which as you point out is very emotional and of

11 great concern to all New Yorkers.

12 Let me first start by thanking

13 sincerely the Speaker and the other 36 Council

14 members who support Intro. 101-A, the Childhood Lead

15 Paint Poisoning Prevention Act.

16 This bill is a state-of-the-art

17 measure that will put New York City at the head of

18 the nation for protecting children from lead paint

19 poisoning. It is comprehensive, cost effective, and

20 if enacted, will provide for the control of lead

21 dust. The primary pathway to lead poisoning, as well

22 as lead paint.

23 It requires landlords to eliminate

24 leadpaint hazards, and the underlying conditions

25 that cause them. It defines leadpaint hazards as

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2 peeling lead paint, lead dust and certain surfaces

3 with lead paint, such as friction, impact and

4 chewable surfaces.

5 In addition, Intro. 101-A requires

6 landlords to affirmatively ascertain the presence of

7 children under age seven as in the current window

8 guard law. It mandates that HPD inspectors, when

9 making routine inspections, always inquire for the

10 presence of children and conduct line of sight

11 inspections for peeling lead paint. Intro. 101-A

12 also requires HPD operators when taking a phone

13 complaint to ask about children and peeling paint.

14 It adds protection from lead dust

15 hazards during repairs and renovations. It lowers

16 Health Department action levels to 15 ug/dl from the

17 current two tests within three months at 15 ug/dl or

18 one test at or above 20 ug/dl.

19 As we all know, Intro 101-A is

20 supported by countless medical, environmental,

21 housing, labor and good government groups, as well

22 as religious leaders, the public advocate and the

23 City and State Comptrollers, as well as other City

24 and State elected officials. At today's hearing I

25 hope we'll be able to add the Mayor to that list as

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2 well.

3 Thank you.

4 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Thank you.

5 We'll start with our Commissioners. We have Jerilyn

6 Perine, Commissioner of HPD, and we have Tom

7 Frieden, Commissioner of Department of Health and

8 Mental Health, whichever one of you wants to start

9 first.

10 COMMISSIONER PERINE: I'll go first.

11 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Okay.

12 COMMISSIONER PERINE: Good morning,

13 Chairperson Provenzano and Speaker Miller, and

14 members of the Housing and Buildings Committee. I'm

15 Jerilyn Perine --

16 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Commissioner,

17 can I interrupt a minute? Do you have written

18 testimony?

19 COMMISSIONER PERINE: I do.

20 CHAIRPERSON PROVENZANO: Okay, thank

21 you.

22 COMMISSIONER PERINE: Hot off the

23 presses, sorry.

24 I'm the Commissioner of the

25 Department of Housing Preservation and Development.

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2 We appreciate the opportunity to

3 testify today regarding the issue of lead poison

4 prevention and the revised version of 101-A. As you

5 are aware, we testified on this issue on June 23rd,

6 2003. As we all know, since that time the Court of

7 Appeals has invalidated Local Law 38 on the basis

8 that the conditions of the State Environmental

9 Quality Review Act were not fully satisfied. Now

10 legislation is needed to replace Local Law 38.

11 The proposed bill is a big step

12 forward in the direction of improving the lives of

13 children, and we believe with some technical and

14 procedural changes we have the opportunity to have a

15 better primary prevention program than we have had

16 to date. The proposed bill makes a firm commitment

17 to the use of trained workers to deal with lead

18 paint and lead hazards in New York City.

19 The use of qualified workers helps

20 ensure that work is done properly and safely. All of

21 the work that HPD currently does in regard to lead

22 paint violation removal is done with EPA-trained

23 workers, so we have significant experience regarding

24 how to accomplish this type of work, and what

25 resources of time and staff are required to do it

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2 safely and properly.

3 The proposed bill requires that lead

4 dust clean-up and dust clearance tests are done

5 after any lead hazard remediation work.

6 Again, HPD's work meets this standard

7 now, and extending it to all work undertaken is

8 helpful to ensure that there is an independent check

9 on all lead hazard remediation work and that

10 clean-ups are done properly.

11 In addition, the proposed bill

12 provides that friction surfaces could now be a

13 stand-alone violation which will help to target

14 repairs where lead dust is most likely to be

15 generated. We also note that the definition of lead

16 paint has been changed to the nationally recognized

17 standard of one milligram per square centimeter.

18 This helps to ensure that the